What Does Paul Mean In 1 Timothy 2?

It seems to me that the allowance of women teaching men is resting heavy on the proper understanding of 1 Timothy 2. I am on a mission to study this and find it's meaning.

Though I am about to paste the excerpt text of what is said on this by John Piper, I can say from listening to the whole sermon here, that there is a great deal more definition in that.

I will be leaving this blog up all week with a follow up blog coming from the actual sermon notes for those of you who don't get to listen. You are missing a lot without it.

I welcome comments and discussion.

For those of you not interested in all this reading and discussion, I apologize. The correct handle of the Word of God is one of my deepest passions and one I struggle with being polite on when it comes to it being misrepresented. I scare myself with the intensity of it. I'm sure Jesus seemed very disagreeable when he raged through the temple. Sometimes I feel that bubble in me. I'm praying though that God would be glorified by the way I handle this topic. I want His word to be heard for what it says.

I love how clear and understandable John Piper is in his teaching and his mastery of the common sense of scripture.

"Manhood, Womanhood, and the Freedom to Minister" by John Piper

1 Timothy 2:8-15
I desire then that in every place the men should pray, lifting holy hands without anger or quarreling; also that women should adorn themselves modestly and sensibly in seemly apparel, not with braided hair or gold or pearls or costly attire but by good deeds, as befits women who profess religion. Let a woman learn in silence with all submissiveness. I permit no woman to teach or to have authority over men; she is to keep silent. For Adam was formed first, then Eve; and Adam was not deceived, but the woman was deceived and became a transgressor. Yet woman will be saved through bearing children, if she continues in faith and love and holiness, with modesty.
What we saw last week from Ephesians 5:32 was that marriage is a mystery. God gave it a meaning at the beginning of creation that was not fully revealed for a long time. But now it's made plain in the New Testament. And the mystery is this: marriage is an image or picture of Christ's relationship to his bride the church. A husband and a wife are meant by God to be living images of Christ and the church in relationship to each other.
Before Sin Ever Entered into the World
So when God created man and woman, he made us the way we are—with the differences of manhood and womanhood—so that we would be suited for these complementary roles (and for the other expressions of complementarity outside marriage). In this drama man was meant to play the role of Christ, and the woman was meant to play the role of his bride the church.
And we have stressed for five weeks now that these differences are not the result of sin. Sin didn't create manhood and womanhood. God did. And sin did not bring diversified, complementary roles into existence. God did. Before sin ever entered the world, God ordained and fitted Adam to be a loving, caring, strong leader for his wife Eve. And before sin entered the world, God ordained and fitted Eve to be a partner who supports and honors that leadership and helps carry it through. Both in the image of God. Both equal in their God-like personhood. But also different in their manhood and womanhood. The pattern was beautiful. They respected each other and served each other and complemented each other and enjoyed each other.
What Sin Ruined and Christ Recovered
What sin did was ruin this harmony. Sin made men abandon servant-leadership and become passive or harsh and insensitive and uncaring, or some other distortion of biblical headship. And sin distorted the woman's support and honor into manipulation or defiance or helplessness or some other distortion of true biblical submission.
So what Paul did in Ephesians 5 (as we saw last week) is call for a recovery of God's original idea. He doesn't abolish what God created at the beginning. He wants to get back to it: true biblical headship and true biblical submission. Here's the way we defined these two realities from our study last week:
Headship is the divine calling of a husband to take primary responsibility for Christ-like servant leadership, protection, and provision in the home.
Submission is the divine calling of a wife to honor and affirm her husband's leadership and help carry it through according to her gifts.
When a husband leads like Christ and a wife responds like the bride of Christ, there is a harmony and mutuality that is more beautiful and more satisfying and more fruitful than any pattern of marriage created by man. God loves his people and he loves his glory. And therefore when we follow his idea of marriage, we are most satisfied and he is most glorified.
The Real Test of Whether We've Grasped This
Now the real test I think of whether we have grasped the biblical essence of manhood and womanhood and affirm it as true and beautiful—the real test is whether Paul's application of it to the life of the church surprises and offends us or not. If the New Testament roles for man and woman in marriage are rooted not in sinful pride and not in cultural expectations, but in God's original design for creation, then how would you expect this original design to express itself in the life of the church? That's what we have before us today in 1 Timothy 2:11-14.
Let's seat ourselves before these unpopular verses and listen for a few minutes, and see if the story they tell is really as unattractive as so many think it is.
Let a woman learn in silence with all submissiveness. I permit no woman to teach or to have authority over men; she is to keep silent. For Adam was formed first, then Eve; and Adam was not deceived, but the woman was deceived and became a transgressor.
I think what we need to do in order to understand the submissiveness in this text is patiently think through the meaning of "silence" ("Let a woman learn in silence") and the meaning of "teaching" ("I do not permit a woman to teach") and the meaning of "authority" ("or to have authority over men"). So let's take these one at time.
1. "Silence"
First, "silence." Verse 11: "Let a woman learn in silence." Notice that the word "silence" is used two other times in nearby verses.
The word for silence here (hesuchia) is used earlier in verse 2 of this chapter (hesuchion). But there it refers to the "quiet" life which all godly people should lead. "Pray . . . that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life, godly and respectful in every way." This gives you the tone and the extent of the word. It doesn't refer to absolute silence: a "quiet" and peaceable life is not a life of total silence. It's a life untroubled and serene and content. So the silence doesn't seem to be total. It's more like what we would call "quietness."
You can see this especially at the end of verse 12. The same word is used again. But this time you can tell what Paul has in mind by its opposite. He says, "I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over men, [literally:] but to be silent." "Not to have authority over men, but to be silent." In other words this quietness is the opposite of exercising authority over men. "Don't exercise authority over men, instead be silent."
So what sort of quietness does Paul have in mind? It's the kind of quietness that respects and honors the leadership of the men God has called to oversee the church. Verse 11 says that the quietness is "in all submissiveness," and verse 12 says the quietness is the opposite of "authority over men," and so the point is not whether a woman says nothing, but whether she is submissive and whether she supports the authority of the men God has called to oversee the church. Quietness means not speaking in a way that compromises that authority.
We'll come back in a minute and be more specific about just what this submission is.
2. "Teaching"
The second thing we need to look at is the reference to teaching in verse 12. How extensive is Paul's prohibition when he says, "I permit no woman to teach"?
To answer this, one thing we can do is look at other places where Paul and others talk about women teaching. For example in Titus 2:3 he says that the older women are to teach the younger women (at the end of the verse): "they are to teach what is good, and so train the younger women to love their husbands and children."
Another example is 2 Timothy 3:14 where Paul tells Timothy to remember from whom he learned the Scriptures. And the persons he has in mind (we can tell from 2 Timothy 1:5) are Eunice and Lois, Timothy's mother and grandmother. (His father was not a believer or even a Jew, Acts 16:3.)
One other example is Priscilla. It says in Acts 18:26, "When Priscilla and Aquila heard Apollos, they took him and expounded to him the way of God more accurately."
So, it's not likely that Paul is saying in 1 Timothy 2:12 that every kind of teaching is forbidden to women. There are examples of them teaching younger women, teaching children, and in some way teaming up with their husbands to give private instruction when someone is confused or uninformed like Apollos. Those are just some examples. Is it possible to generalize, then, about what Paul does have in mind here when he says, "I do not permit a woman to teach"? I think the safest thing to do is let the next phrase guide us. The next phrase is, " . . . or exercise authority over men." "I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over men."
Instead of letting the word "teach" mean anything we want it to mean or think it might mean, it's safer to say, it probably means a kind of teaching that somehow relates to authority. Teach and exercise authority go together. So at least one general thing we can say about women teaching is that Paul forbids it when it is part of the exercise of authority over men.
That leads us to the third question, namely, what is this "authority" referred to in verse 12?
3. "Authority"
The key that unlocks this door is a very interesting observation. When you read the rest of 1 Timothy about the role of elders in the church, what you find is that the elders had two basic responsibilities: they were to govern and they were to teach. You can see this in the qualifications of 3:1-7, but the easiest place to see it is in 5:17, "Let the elders who rule [or govern] well be considered worthy of double honor, especially those who labor in preaching and teaching."
Elders rule or govern, and elders teach or preach. Back in Acts 20:28, you may recall, the elders in the church at Ephesus were called by the Holy Spirit and made "overseers" and charged with "pasturing" or feeding the flock, that is, teaching the whole counsel of God.
I don't think it's coincidental that what Paul says in 1 Timothy 2:12 is that he does not permit a woman to teach and exercise authority over men. He is saying in essence: I do not permit women to fill the office of elder in the church. The elders are charged with the leadership and instruction of the church. That's a summary of their job. So when Paul puts those two things together and says, "I do not permit a woman to teach or exercise authority," the most natural sense is, "I do not permit a woman to assume the office of elder in the church."
So the authority Paul has in mind in 1 Timothy 2:12 is the authority of elders. And what is that supposed to look like? Well we saw already from Jesus in Luke 22:26 what it's supposed to look like: "Let the greatest among you become as the youngest, and the leader as one who serves." Paul said in 2 Corinthians 10:8 and 13:10 that God gave him authority in the church not for tearing down or destroying but for building up. And Peter said to the elders of the churches (1 Peter 5:3), "Do not domineer over those in your charge, but be examples to the flock."
In other words, elder-authority is servant-authority. Elder-leadership is servant-leadership. That's why teaching is at the heart of this calling. Elder-authority leads by persuasion—by teaching—not by coercion or political maneuvering. Elder-authority is always subordinate to biblical texts. It can always be called to account by Scripture. Therefore teaching is the primary instrument of leadership in the church.
Defining Authority and Submission
I think it would be helpful to step back here and try to do for the concepts of authority and submission in the church what we did for the concepts of headship and submission in the home, namely, give a crisp definition of each.
"Authority" refers to the divine calling of spiritual, gifted men to take primary responsibility as elders for Christ-like servant-leadership and teaching in the church.
"Submission" refers to the divine calling of the rest of the church, both men and women, to honor and affirm the leadership of the elders and to be equipped by it for the hundreds and hundreds of various ministries available to men and women in the service of Christ.
And that last point is very important. For men and women who have a heart to minister—to save souls and heal broken lives and resist evil and meet needs—there are fields of opportunity that are simply endless. God intends for the entire church to be mobilized in ministry, male and female. Nobody is to be at home watching soaps and reruns while the world burns. And God intends to equip and mobilize the saints through a company of spiritual men who take primary responsibility for leadership and teaching in the church.
Closing Appeal
There are many voices today who claim to know a better way to equip and mobilize the men and women of the church for ministry. But I commend to you this morning with all my heart the plain meaning of these verses:
That manhood and womanhood mesh better in ministry when men take primary responsibility for leadership and teaching in the church.
That manhood and womanhood are better preserved and better nurtured and more fulfilled and more fruitful in this church order than in any other.
I commend this to you for your belief and for your behavior, because
this is the way the Scriptures teach us to order the church,
and God inspired the Scriptures,
and God is good.
My hope next Sunday, in the last of this series, is to pick up verses 13 and 14, and then paint the big picture of what it means to be man and woman in all of life.


© DesirLogos.ReferenceTagging.lbsBibleVersion = "ESV";
Logosing God
Permissions: You are permitted and encouraged to reproduce and distribute this material in any format provided that you do not alter the wording in any way and do not charge a fee beyond the cost of reproduction. For web posting, a link to this document on our website is preferred. Any exceptions to the above must be approved by Desiring God. Please include the following statement on any distributed copy: By John Piper. © Desiring God. Website: desiringGod.org

Piper On Women in Church Leadership and Apostles

I know, I know, I just can't stop.
This is great, but listen here to hear his whole talk.
Also, you can go here to learn more about 1 Timothy 2 and it's importance.


Should women become pastors?
The Bible draws a connection between the home and the church. Just as there is a role distinction at home—where the husband is called to lead the family—there is also one at church.
At home men are proving their fitness to be elders (pastors), and at church they are the ones who are given that role. Paul says explicitly, "I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man" (1 Timothy 2:12). And those two functions—teaching and exercising authority—are the functions of the elder.
It's not a problem for a woman to minister in hundreds of ways in the church, but the office of leadership and teaching of men is preserved for spiritual and godly men.
Why didn't Jesus choose women as some of his apostles?
The Twelve are all men. That was intentional, because they are all given incredible authority to found the church. They are like pastors, only they have more authority than pastors.
But Jesus did call women, and he called them into significant ministry. Read the beginning of Luke 8 or see the role of women at the Resurrection. Jesus broke significant taboos in the way that he elevated the role of women. It was counter-cultural to have Mary sitting at his feet learning like a rabbinic student at the feet of his teacher. And it was counter-cultural for him to have women so closely attending him, providing for his needs, and for him to be so merciful to the women of the street.
Jesus was pro-woman to the max. But he did not choose women to be apostles. That wasn't because he was enslaved to his times. It was because, in coherence with the rest of the Bible (Genesis 1-2, Ephesians 5, 1 Corinthians 11, and 1 Timothy 2), he believed that it would be healthy for the church and the family if men assumed the role of Christ-like, humble, caring, servant-leaders, and if the women came in alongside with their respective gifts to help carry his leadership through according to those gifts.
So I sympathize with any confusion on this matter, and I pray that the Lord would give you light to see that it's really not very complicated: God has ordained that in the home and in the church men assume a special role of responsible leadership and teaching.

The Snare of Compare

We mom's can really be queens of the comparison game. I've been there and done that, and when I'm not careful I can slip back into that trap quite effortlessly. I can honestly say that as I grow as a mom and just a daughter of the King, I find I am slowly easing out of this more and more. I'm sure there will be elements of it throughout my whole life but praise God that He gently works on me.

I think I've said before that I've had times in my life when I've fallen into a thinking that everyone had to be like me, or more strongly, that I had to be like them or there was no satisfaction to be found in what we did as a family.

Do you ever notice it? You can be talking about just about anything and the conversation will turn to what they do, what you do, how they do it different, therefore who does it better...etc. Now, mind you, sometimes passing on suggestions and helpful hints is great but when we become competitive and walk away wishing they would just be like us, or that we could just be like them we are not living in freedom.

I've been pondering lately the verse in Thessalonians that states that we should mind our own business.

Make it your ambition to lead a quiet life, to mind your own business and to work with your hands, just as we told you,..

I've always found this verse to be one of the most blunt admonishments in scripture. It's blunt to me especially because I gravitate to sharing and enjoy when others share. Yet, how quickly share becomes compare! In this world of technology we don't really know what it means anymore to mind our own business. Everyone's business is plastered all over the place in most regards. It's a comparison minefield.

What God continually works to show me is that comparisons are all about self. Self wants to be flattered by imitation. If that does not fulfill self wants to redefine itself by what it deems as better. Both of these are distractions from Christ. I've pondered this a great deal lately since the conviction I found in May not to look like another "body part" in the body of Christ but to look like what God created me to be in his body. If the hand compares itself to the eye, it will indeed find drastic differences. Those are as they aught to be! Christ, the creator of the body and the ordainer of the character there of is the only one the eye or hand should look to for definition.

So if we know this, why do we compare? I ask myself.

I think I compare out of a motivation of discontent at times with who and what God made me. I wish I was more like another mom who can do this, that, and endlessly more. Fact is ladies, I don't know her weakness.. God does and he also knows how she is discontented. So, instead I need to focus on how, and ask God how, He wants to put who He created me to be for the use and sake of his awesome plan. For indeed, he has said that I am me, and no other. My discontent with myself beyond my sin which needs to be dealt with and I should be thankful I am uncomfortable with, is in essence an argument with God. A disputation with His sovereignty. In reality, how would I ever dare to argue? I wouldn't and yet I do.

The other major motivation can be my desire for admiration and affirmation. A sense of glory....ooooh... did I just say glory!? What glory is there that I possibly deserve? Think-think, think-think, think-think....um... NONE. So why would I waste my time seeking what is not mine? Because it is a pleasant distraction from the enemy and a well that does not meet my thirst but deceives. I long for that which I should only turn to Christ for, and he is full and plenty in this regard! Endless love flows from Him for me and it is a pure love that allows the bonds of self to be broken, which is what I really need and long for.

In the book "Don't Waste Your Life" by John Piper, I love when Piper asks me this:

"Would you feel more loved by God if he made much of you, or if he liberated you from the bondage of self-regard, at great cost to himself, so that you enjoy making much of him forever?"

Wow! Yes! I raise my hand heartily! Please do that to me God!

Is that not so true?! What I really long for is not the fulfillment of self, but the freedom from it!

Comparisons are a journey down self lane. They are a rabbit trail off the straight and narrow. Sooner or later God will have to wake us up in His love and get our eyes back on Him and our feet back on the path He has for us. Yet, don't forget that they are therefore one major thing.. a waste of time. Time is a precious gift to be used as a resource for God's glory. Not to be wasted.

When the hand wastes it's time wanting to be the eye, or it wastes it's time working to convince the eye it would rather be a hand, it is wasting it's time. Further more, it is being distracted from living the freedom and joy of being the hand God intended it to be. It will shine with glory, the pure glory of the father as it fulfills what it was meant to do.

So, as you make your many visits along blogville today, or you talk with a great friend/ sister in the Lord, keep your eyes on Christ. I pray to do the same. To continually come to Him for definition and affirmation. Be the part of His body he wants YOU to be! Find your joy and encourage your sisters as they find theirs. Encourage one another in the Lord, spur one another on in loving truth that desires for each of you a better fulfillment of your specific callings.

I Was Made To Forget Myself Entirely

God is using John Piper to blow my mind. The more I read of Him, the more I GET life. The more I see how I can be at the very bottom of life's cruelties and still have joy that is unchanging. I can be led by God into the valley of the shadow, or beside still waters and have the same hope in both.
We have been doing the bible study for "Don't Waste Your Life" and I of course recommend it. I will say though that John Piper is a deep thinker and a poetic, figurative writer. A dear friend of mine told me today she is not getting it beyond the bottom line "let's glorify God". This saddened me since my heart was swelling. I realized though that some people understand things in a figurative sense and some in a literal. We all process information differently which is why our loving God leads us in the ways we will be best taught by Him and for Him. What he can't get through to my dear friend through this book, he will through another means, but he WILL fulfill her purposes in Him.

I just wanted to share what meant a lot to me on the last chapter. What I highlighted in my book.

On understanding the intent of scripture from an objective truth standpoint:

"verses of the bible are not stung pearls but links in a chain....This meant that, in each paragraph of scripture, one should ask how each part related to the other parts in order to say one coherent thing. Then the paragraphs should be related to each other in the same way. And then the chapters, then the books, and so on until the unity of the Bible is found on its own terms.

I felt like my little brown path of life had entered an orchard, a vineyard, a garden with mind-blowing, heart-thrilling, life-changing fruit to be picked everywhere. Never had I seen so much truth and so much beauty condensed in so small a sphere. The Bible seemed to me then, and it seems today, inexhaustible. "

Do you get that excited about how BIG God is and how exciting his word is?! Lately I have been reminded of how many of the people I grew up with in my homeschool community have abandoned the faith as far as walking with the Lord goes (and from public and private...made little difference). It has broken my heart. They were given the information but never took up the delight of God. I loved this view of scripture Piper gives. It is a feast! It is a delight to taste and see that He is good! It is a savoring process that is honey to our mouths and health to our bones! This is what David meant when he said that his delight was in the law of the Lord and it haunted his thoughts day and night in the most passionate way. There was intense pleasure in the greatness of His God and it swelled his heart with joy!

He quotes Dr. Daniel Fuller:

"God ordained a redemptive history whose sequence fully displays his glory so that, at the end, the greatest possible number of people would have had the historical antecedents necessary to engender the most fervent love for God... The one thing God is doing in all of redemptive history is to show forth his mercy in such a way that the greatest number of people will throughout eternity delight in him with all their heart, strength and mind... when the earth of the new creation is filled with such people, then God's purpose in showing forth his mercy will have been achieved...All the events of redemptive history and their meaning as recorded in the Bible compose a unity in that they conjoin to bring about this goal."

Does that not just thrill you! It's something worth investing in! It's a joy to teach to our children. Yet, in the end, it is a thrill put in our hearts by the work of the Holy Spirit ALONE! HE only uses vessels and clay pots like us and other servants. Only through Him can we reflect His glory for it to be seen by our children or others. So, pray for these joys for your kids. When they look out and see the world more and more, pray their eyes will be opened to the delights forever more. May they see the world more and more for the dry, dirty wells they are and see the magnificence of God like living on the very edge of the universe being breathlessly overtaken with awe. Yet, even the imagery of the universe is a pale comparison.

"God's passion was the display of His glory and the delight of my heart." Piper

"Delighting in God was not a mere preference or option in life (for Jonathan Edwards); it was our joyful duty and should be the single passion of our lives. Therefor to resolve to maximise his happiness in God was to resolve to show him more glorious than all other sources of happiness. Seeking happiness in God and glorifying God were the same."

Edwards states:

"The glory of God does not consist merely in the creature's [us, humans] perceiving his [God's] perfections; for the creature may perceive the power and wisdom of God, and yet take no delight in it, but abhor it. Those creatures that so do, don't glorify God.

The glory of God therefore [consists] in the creature's admiring and rejoicing and exulting in the manifestation of his beauty and excellency....The essence of glorifying ...God consists, therefore, in the creature's rejoicing in God's manifestations of his beauty, which is the joy and happiness we speak of. So we see it comes to this at last: that the end of the creation is that God may communicate happiness to the creature; for if God created the world that he may be glorified in the creature, he created it that they might rejoice in his glory: for we have shown that they are the same."

Piper states that in his experience "many who seemed to emphasize the glory of God in their thinking did not seem to enjoy him much."

I have seen this and I think this may be a key element to loosing some along the way. Kids read our hearts, not our mouths. They will see our delight in God in the way we speak of him, turn to him, make much of him....further more, it is found on our very faces. Joy is hard to conceal. Light is hard to hide. So it should be in our delight of God. Make him as big as you possibly can, you will still only be scratching the surface.

I'll have to come back to this more later.